Empty stomach myth - possibly G*

[purpleteacher]

Okay, I have been told that you can still V* on an empty stomach. I know you can do this, but it is really just dry heaving - right? You don't necessarily bring anything up, rather just go through the actions.


See... I have the problem of not eating because I believe that if I don't eat - I can't V*. I don't see dry heaving as V* because V* involves bringing stuff up and that is the nasty part for me. I will literally not eat to avoid V*.


What happens if you get a SV on an empty stomach? How can you actually V* with nothing in there at all? I know not everyone brings up bile and acid either, they just go through the actions.


HELP! I'm confused and frustrated... and worried because I know I am constantly being exposed to the SV at work.

[kellybean]

I think that most people drink fluids when they have an SV, which is very important to stay hydrated. I know when I had an SV, I would drink a little bit of water, and that's what would come out. I guess it's not as bad as bringing up food, because (sorry this is gross)but there are no chunks. Alot of people find that dry heaving hurts.

[purpleteacher]

I don't drink fluids, except when I absolutely have to. I am always dehydrated. I cannot stand the feeling of ANYTHING in my stomach. I ate a pb&j sandwich this afternoon because I have a long day ahead of me tomorrow, but I am beginning to believe the sandwich wasn't even worth it. I know I can go more than 72 hours without food and still work.


I am just afraid of catching something and then V* with something in my stomach. Can I actually V* with nothing in my stomach? I'm used to dry heaves because of my eating disorder and those I can tolerate to some degree.

[ontariogirl]

I would rather throw up water than having the dry heaves. You need to eat and drink because if you dont your resistance to infection becomes higher. If you are not going to eat properly why don't you take a supplement like ensure or something like that. I was like you when I was younger and believe me you have to eat and drink.
Yes you can probably vomit with nothing in your stomach but please if you are not going to eat than at least drink

[purpleteacher]

Stuff isn't supposed to come OUT of our mouths, it is supposed to go IN our mouths!!!

[samara's on tv]

I know how you feel. I remember this one time where I was taking medication, and I shouldn't have taken it on an empty stomach but I was feeling to gross to eat. Anyway I dry heaved like ALL night and finally I V*ed up a little bit of bile. I felt better after that but it was horrible. You CAN V* on an empty stomach, eventually you'll produce enough bile to V* up...or at least that's what I believe.


You HAVE to keep hydrated. I mean I remember being on a trip with my family and we were in Arizona. My sister got SEVERLY dehydrated and we had to call an ambulance and everything. They told her she could either drink something or be hooked up to an IV. She decided to drink...weird, she isn't afraid of V*ing but she IS afraid of a little needle going into her arm.


You should have seen her when she was dehydrated, she was almost delireous. You need to drink stuff, try water and if you aren't a big fan of water then drink something like ginger ale. I used to be like you, I wouldn't eat or drink, I was SO AFRAID of V*ing. Now I eat, just not stuff that is good for me. You won't throw up, you won't, I can't say I PROMISE that you won't but I mean how old are you? Compare that to how many times you've ACTUALLY thrown up in that time frame and weigh it out.


~Monica

[crimgoddess]

<<<I know how you feel. I remember this one time where I was taking medication, and I shouldn't have taken it on an empty stomach but I was feeling to gross to eat. Anyway I dry heaved like ALL night and finally I V*ed up a little bit of bile. I felt better after that but it was horrible. You CAN V* on an empty stomach, eventually you'll produce enough bile to V* up...or at least that's what I believe. >>>


I can say from experience that Monica is right. I know for myself, if nothing is in my stomach I will gag and gag until SOMETHING comes up- usually a nasty helping of bile, which I find more disgusting than water or another liquid. That, and it HURTS. Your body has to work a lot harder to get those few mouthfuls of bile up, than it would if you have some water in your stomach. And even if you may not think you have anything in your stomach- you may be surprised. I have throw up stuff that I would swear I ate the day before, and would have been processed already.


Purple- as someone who vomits on average 1-2 times every 4-6 months (tragic, i know), it is so much easier and less traumatic if you would just drink some water, or even juice or soda. Seriously, it's not that bad- if that is all that is in your stomach, it's not even really that discoloured. It makes the whole process shorter, less painful, and it keeps your hydrated.


By not eating/not remaining hydrated, although you will throw up less materials- you are leaving yourself more open to catch those viruses that are going around your school, because it is harder for them to infiltrate a healthy well-nourished body.


*amber*

[Galadriel]

Well, if you are going to get the heaves then yeah something in there
is best, but then again not having food in there will make you less
likely to feel nauseaus. I always figured that I would rather feel
hungry (because I know what that is and its a safe feeling) than have
food in my stomach and feel nauseas. I still do this sometimes if I am
say going on a trip or in certain situacions (yeah not the best idea).
I will eat as minimally as possible and still be able to somewhat
function. Anyways I'm rambling, but if you are going to get sick it is
better to have something in your stomach than to not.


</font></span>
Edited by: Galadriel

[icicledreamz]

i have v* with nothing at all in my stomach..and it was nastier cause it was all stomach acid..and have V* before from dehydration and not eattign and got VERY sick..so i suggest you eat cause not eatting only makes it worse.

[mjewell]

I agree with icicledreamz, I have known many people who got deathly ill (vomiting and nausea) from being dehydrated.


My anxiety and emet got REALLY bad a couple years ago and I was terrified to eat, especially if I had to go anywhere (which for most normal people is every day). What I did was just eat a couple of bitefulls of food...not enough to make me feel like I had eaten, but at least enough to stave off hunger related nausea. My therpaist suggested i buy those Zone bars and just eat one bite at a time. That's actually what i had to do for a while. it would take me a full day to eat one of those bars sometimes.


Are you getting help at all purple teacher?

[purpleteacher]

I can't afford therapy and even if I could, my family would refuse to take me -- I currently cannot drive due to nerve damage in my feet. I need counseling about this because it is beginning to take over EVERYTHING. It is like I can't stop thinking about it. It is so hard to work right now, but I'm forcing myself to do so.


I get dry heaves, or at least what I think are dry heaves, almost everyday because of my eating disorder. I am used to the coughing and stomach contractions and swallowing so hard I think my eyeballs are going to pop out!


I am absolutely petrified of food right now. I would rather taste bile and acid that taste food. I already have such a limited diet that I know if I V* one of the precious things I actually DO EAT, that I will get even worse. I know food keeps me healthy, but food can also put me at risk.


Ugghh... I am just feeling overwhelmed right now.

[crimgoddess]

Hmmm.....what you are getting may not be dry heaves. When I am feeling a little off, my stomach sometimes contracts, almost like I am going to vomit, but it's definitely not the same. I get them practically everytime I am in a moving vehicle, but know that I'm not actually going to be sick because the other signs aren't there (my mouth will water- but not the same way that it would if I were going to vomit. It's hard to describe, but there is a definite qualitative difference).


Don't be scared of tasting the food when you vomit- I know for myself it usually tastes the same as the bile/acid because it is mostly broken down (repulsive, I know). The only way that it actually tastes like the food is if I am actually vomitting shortly after eating.


I know you are thinking of food as the enemy right now- which is really unfortunate. As someone mentioned earlier- what about things such as Ensure, or other pre-packaged vacuum sealed drinks? So at least you will get some vitamins and nutrients in you, and the odds of you catching something or getting food poisoning from something like that would be extremely slim.


As for therapy- is there any way that you can make your family understand what this is doing to you? Even I can sense the urgency in your posts, and I don't even see in you in 'real life'. Are you insured at all through work? DO you have any medical insurance at all? I know that with some carriers, they do cover you for psychiatric treatment if you get a referral from your family doctor.


I find it very telling when you say 'food can put you at risk'- it's almost like you are worried about catching some horrible disease, or something fatal.I know that vomitting may seem that way to you- but in reality what you are doing to your body as a result of this phobia is physically more painful than vomitting. I know you may not think it's true, or may prefer it this way- but whereas vomitting in reality makes you uncomfortable for maybe a minute or two (and it's really gross, no denying it)- it's over fairly quickly. What you are doing is putting you in a state where, correct me if I'm wrong- you are feeling ill almost 24-7 with little to no relief. I hate to see anyone living this way.


I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to get some sort of therapy or counselling. I hate to see you being put through this!


*amber*

[purpleteacher]

I have no medical coverage, as my job doesn't provide any to substitute teachers. There are very few jobs where I live and I have limited transportation. My family just thinks I'm psycho and they usually just blow me off, making me feel even more alienated and alone with my problems. They believe that problems go away by ignoring them --- they have ALWAYS been this way about everything in our family's life.


I cannot stand pre-packed drinks, partly because I don't drink dairy. The only dairy I can handle is cheese and some cream based sauces in moderation. I cannot stand the thought of drinking milk --- makes me gag at the thought! I am not much of a fan of "liquid soy" either. I don't like drinking liquid nutrient thingies. I am dehydrated as is and I struggle to get down my diet soda, sugar-free kool aid, and water most of the time.


My stomach lurches into my throat after I eat, when I'm hungry, when I'm traveling, etc... and acid washes up in my throat and my voice goes out - cracks. I am constantly clearing my throat when my stomach is bothering me. I often start coughing and gagging too. My mouth constantly waters! Arrrggghhh.... Stuff comes up into my throatand I swallow it back down rather than let it finish coming out - I have to or I would be in the bathroom multiple times a day. My voice usually cracks within seconds of this happening :::embarassed looking face::: and kids comment.


I know I need help for this and the only thing that is keeping me the least bit sane is working. I have to work because I get so much pleasure and enjoyment from teaching. I know I am good substitute and I work very hard at my job. I know I could be better if I didn't have to deal with this fear on my mind constantly.


I am scared to death of food because I don't want to get fat (my family is fat and obese) and I am scared to V*. There are two causes and when SV go around, my emet and ED get worse. I am always worse in the winter-time than during other months because I am stuck inside during the winter. I'm a *big boned girl*, which further complicates things. No one would ever suspect I have an ED by looking at me - my emet is more obvious at school than my ED and only when I have a kid who gets visibly ill in front of me.


I know how to keep myself together fairly well because the consequences of losing my composure will result in me losing EVERYTHING I have worked so hard to accomplish in my career up to this point. My job really does help me face my fears of emet because I am FORCED to deal with V* in the classroom when it happens and I'm being looked to as a source of stablity for my healthy kids still in there.


My job actually serves as my motivator for beating this stupid phobia. I have to beat it to become a better teacher. My kids force me to face my fears because they watch every move I make in the classroom. Kids get to know me when I have worked at their school more than a few times and I have to be strong for them, which makes me become stronger for me.

[tanyac]

Hi,





From my experience as a nurse....people with empty stomachs tend to dry retch initially...thenlater bring up bile...then if the virus/bug is REALLY desperate to get out...eventually blood..Best thing to drink when having a bad SV is water. It's not too bad to bring up (if you really DO have to v*).....ugh....hope this helps!

[purpleteacher]

Hi,





From my experience as a nurse....people with empty stomachs tend to dry retch initially...thenlater bring up bile...then if the virus/bug is REALLY desperate to get out...eventually blood..Best thing to drink when having a bad SV is water. It's not too bad to bring up (if you really DO have to v*).....ugh....hope this helps!

What you said is encouraging. I am trying to push more fluids when I believe it isn't safe to eat, but it is still VERY hard mentally. I'm trying some calcium fortified water right now because I haven't eaten anything in 2 days.


Question: Why do we V* when we have a stomach virus if there is nothing in the stomach that is making us physically sick? I guess I just don't understand how the virus works.

[japa]

Have you ever thought about going to a general doctor to discover why acid washes up into your throat at all times or whether there is medication for that? Maybe you have a severe case of acid reflux, a.k.a. heartburn. Maybe if a doctor could find a way to stop this situation with the acid then you would be able to enjoy food more.


Emetophobia can inhibit people's desire to eat and cause people to starve themselves in a similar way to anorexia. I actually used to stop eating because I had IBS, and I didn't want to have to go to the bathroom in a public place. But you know that you have an eating disorder related to body image as well. That, combined with not eating due to emetophobia, sounds like a very dangerous, even potentially fatal combination.


Hearing that you have not eaten anything for two days is very disturbing. How long will you be able to continue substitute teaching, an obviously demanding job, if you aren't giving your body the nourishment that it needs?


[QUOTE=purpleteacher


My stomach lurches into my throat after I eat, when I'm hungry, when I'm traveling, etc... and acid washes up in my throat and my voice goes out - cracks. I am constantly clearing my throat when my stomach is bothering me. I often start coughing and gagging too. My mouth constantly waters! Arrrggghhh.... Stuff comes up into my throatand I swallow it back down rather than let it finish coming out - I have to or I would be in the bathroom multiple times a day. My voice usually cracks within seconds of this happening :::embarassed looking face::: and kids comment.


[/QUOTE] Edited by: japa

[brina85]

dry heaves hurt like hell the other weel i had eaten at soupplantation at like 2 oclock in the afternoon and at 9 at night it hit me so bad and i dry heaved alot at like 12 then a little came out and i could feel it like coming up from my intestents it was soooooo bad then i threw up 3 more times till finally all the food i had eaten earlyer came up to the food wasnt even in my stomach it was all ready digested but if it wants to up it will and to tell you the truth im glad it did come up cause i felt like s*** until it all was out

[purpleteacher]

I have to work, there is no way around that. No medical insurance means I don't go to the doctor unless I'm potentially contagious.


It is very hard to get the energy and keep the concentration I need to substitute teach. I dread eating like the plague andteaching is my passion, but combining the two creates emotional distress.


I honestly admit that I dance around a fine line when it comes to not eating having to be "high energy" everyday at work.

[naturaldisaster]

If you dont eat and drink youralot more likely to catch any virus because you are killing your immune system! I used to starve myself and I got sick with an sv twice that year (when I was 8) I eat normal now and haven't caught anything major ('cept mono) since then.

[kate1966]

God I feel sorry for you .....i don't know how i would handle not being able to eat at all like that....i mean i am a true emet...but i cannot go without food unless i am totally sick on my stomach......i can't concentrate....cant' think straight...i would be a total wreck and weak and how can you function and not eat...especially teaching with children....i wish that there was something i could do for you......you really sound like you need some friend's and family that can help you...i am sorry your family does not understand your problem.....it's sad that people don't even try to understand what is wrong with you. My family does not understand me either...they never believe me when I say i am sick...so i know how you feel......but i want to wish you the best of luck...you have to eat something though..you cannot go on that way...you will just get worse....try and eat something please....K

[moonshadow]

Purpleteacher - I feel so upset for you. Haven't you got a single family member, colleague or friend that you could sit down and talk to and explain evreything, so that they could support you, and help you with transport to get therapy or whatever? There must be someone you can trust.


It sounds as if not eating is making your stomach problems much worse. You really need to start eating... a light meal should settle the stomach, not upset it. How about starting with easy stuff like potatoes or rice?


Maybe it would even help if you were able to move away from your family and closer to the school or nearest town? I wish I knew what to suggest to help. I don't know what it costs to see the doc in the US but you really need to see someone... good luck and please get well...

[happyteacher]

Purpleteacher,


You need to check yourself into a rehab program, you have a serious eating disorder. You are more than "dancing a fine line" by not eating, you are KILLING yourself by denying you bodyfood and water. It is hard on your heart, organ and nervous systems. My suggestion is to formally sit your family down (like a family meeting)and explain the severity of the situation. If your family won't support you after that, you as an adult need to take responsibility for yourself and your own well being.


Work is the least of your problems, your health is at risk. Get help before you do permanent damage to yourself (if you haven't already).


PLEASE get yourself some help, we are worried about you!


happyteacherEdited by: happyteacher

[japa]

purpleteacher -


It sucks not to have medical insurance, but whether you have it or not, I really think that you should get medical treatment for your phobia and eating disorder.


What is your credit like? If I were in the situation you are with my eating and phobia, I would try to obtain a $5000 loan (or whatever I could get) to seek some cognitive-behavioral therapy and to see a general physician. In 2003, I took out a $3,000 loan for dental work because I did not have the money and I had never obtained dental insurance (which in actuality is quite cheap to obtain). My payment is about 54.00 a month, but it was worth it so my teeth wouldn't fall out.


People obtain loans for school, to purchase cars, to buy residences. People run up credit card debt for any number of less important things. And your health is more important than anything else. It's more important than money for sure, and it enables every other thing to take place in your life - for you to have a life at all.


Have you even checked into what individual health insurance policies would cost you? When I lived in Florida, I had a Blue Cross policy for which I paid myself, and it cost $65.00 a month for coverage which included $600.00 worth of counseling fees. Granted, $600.00 does not go far with counseling, but once I began that relationship with the counselor, she negotiated very affordable payment arrangements with me. Sometimes it can be a matter of getting to know a decent therapist, and they will work with you.


It doesn't sound like your parents and you get along well, but in the interest of leaving no stone unturned, could you ask them for a low interest or interest free loan to get you through the tough space in your life? Do you have any friends who would do this for you?


Can you move to a lower rent place? Are there any bills that you can eliminate from your budget? Cell phone? Regular phone? Cable television? Buying clothes in cheaper establishments for a while?


You must do something to get yourself help.


You must do whatever is necessary

[crimgoddess]

I agree with Teacher and Japa-


If you had cancer, would you not get treated for it because of a lack of insurance, even though it may result in death?


Essentially, this phobia and your eating disorder are a type of cancer- slowly eating away at you until there is nothing left. You are extremely lucky that you are still relatively functional and able to do your job- it's only a matter of time before everything you are doing to yourself catches up on you.


This is your life here- please don't let finances be the major preventive factor in your getting healthy. There must be SOME option available.


*amber*

[purpleteacher]

I have talked with doctors a little bit about my eating problems, but because I am not a "classic case" - I don't get listened to or taken seriously. I am not underweight and I was overweight until about 4-5 months ago. Now I'm in the "healthy range" and even in the upper portion of that range.


In terms of credit... I don't have good credit. I had a serious ankle accident 20 months ago and that has left my credit totally ruined because of medical bills that the insurance I had at the time wouldn't completely cover and because I didn't have a job to pay off the rest of the bills. I cannot take out a loan.


Medical insurance is something I have been looking into, but my conditions are "pre-exisiting". I know a lot about medical insurance and about how counseling/ mental health works in terms of insurance (all of my summer jobs were at counseling centers and the last job I had before sub teaching was at a counseling center). My physical problems are considerably more serious than anything else. I have untreated and non-medicated nerve damage in my feet --- which leaves in me in a state of CONSTANT PAIN. I have impaired mobility due to my condition.


The biggest barrier I have right now is my family. My family situation isn't something I can talk about. Once I get fully-certified as a teacher, I'm leaving my family forever and getting the help and treatment I need. I have to rely on my family for transportation and there is no public transportation where I live.


It is so hard for me to keep my head screwed on straight right now. Working is my only release and saftey net. By working, I'm building up my future career and I know I will get into a certification program within a few months due to my heart work and passion for education. Once I can get a REAL JOB, I'm going to get myself the help I know I need.

[crystalmom]

My heart goes out to you. I can really feel your pain and frustration.


I agree with happyteacher, you need to find some sort of help. Even if you are in the "normal range" weight wise, does not mean that your body is not suffering. If you choose to not put anything into your body, it will "eat" itself. You need to find someway to help this ED. It is a very scary thing. I know b/c I used to be the same way.


Yes, you can still v* even if you don't eat. It won't be pleasant, bile and blood. But, if your body needs to v*, it will, regardless of the contents of your stomach. I have figured out that I would much rather v* water than to v* bile or dry heave. That is much more painful and scary. If I am feeling unwell, I will drink water. If I have a sv, I will still cram water down there, because (1) I don't want to dry heave, and (2) I don't want to end up onan IV in the hospital.


I apolagize right now if this post seems harsh. I feel very upset for you, and very frustrated in myself for being unable to truely help. I am scared for you.


&lt;&lt;&lt;BIG HUGZ&gt;&gt;&gt;


Crystal

[purpleteacher]

Now if I could just work on the hydration thing... hehe...

[tabycat]

I can't imagine feeling this way. I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm just really glad I'm not in your shoes. and I know that sounds horrible, but I'm just glad that's not another I have to deal with right now. If I have any sort of eating disorder it's an overeating one. If you aren't going to eat but are willing to drink probably the best thing for you is gatorade or powerade or something so the sort. especially since it isn't just hydration, it also has electrolytes. Electrolytes are very good for the body, I know I flush them out like crazy cuz I drink way too much water! But yeah vitamins are good and so are things like I previously mentioned

[purpleteacher]

I can't imagine feeling this way. I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm just really glad I'm not in your shoes. and I know that sounds horrible, but I'm just glad that's not another I have to deal with right now. If I have any sort of eating disorder it's an overeating one. If you aren't going to eat but are willing to drink probably the best thing for you is gatorade or powerade or something so the sort. especially since it isn't just hydration, it also has electrolytes. Electrolytes are very good for the body, I know I flush them out like crazy cuz I drink way too much water! But yeah vitamins are good and so are things like I previously mentioned

I think I found something to help with my hydration issues - a new kind of flavored water that is really cheap and has added calcium. I am going to try that out as a way to work on my hydration.


Right now I have a cold, so I'm making myself eat and pushing fluids. It is so hard, but I am going to beat this cold down because I refuse to let it keep me in bed! I hate staying in bed!!!

[tabycat]

that's good. I'm still sorry that you can't really eat most of the time. It seems like you have a pretty good handle on most things...well yeah. I really wish there was a way for you to get some sort of therapy for all this because it's what all of us need here. But yeah, My only real suggestion is if you have a "mental health" non profit organization in your area, then I would suggest trying there, they usually give lower rates to people who have problems paying and maybe you could get a friend to drive you, maybe one of the teachers at a school that you sub at...