"FAST FOOD NATION"............

[californiagirl]

..........Has anyone here read it??


I read that sucker and didn't touch meat for 7 months, then I moved back to AZ where we have SONIC, and that whole fear of meat was forgotten[img]smileys/smilies_03.gif[/img]They have the BEST burgers!


What did you think of it, and did it change the way you eat?Edited by: californiagirl

[gumdropper1]

I understand people who like meat should never read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair.

[sage]

Hey California Girl! Good to hear from you. Are you the same one that was here a zillion years ago, and contributed to that book about phobias?


Anyway, ya I read that book. And didn't want to eat fast food at all afterward (and not cuz I was afraid. just didn't seem right). Now I'm slacking and occasionally pop into McDonalds. Bleck.

[crimgoddess]

Fast food, in general, is revolting to me.


When I drove california-vancouver-ottawa with my boyfriend, sometimes it was the only option, and I leaned that :
<UL>
<LI>Most fast food places not offer any sort of vegetarian option in terms of a substantial meal (unless you count some wilted salad- in most cases the fried stuff was done in animal fat- or else have come in contact with chicken fingers, etc) </LI>
<LI>The 'average meal' packs in more calories than I do in two or three meals- if not my whole day caloric content</LI>
<LI>It just doesn't sit well. </LI>[/list]


I was SO happy to get back to Canada, because then we could have at least stopped at Tim Horton's, where they have soup and salad that is somewhat digestible (and not deep friedin the same juice asanimal carcasses).


I've been a vegetarian for about 13 years now- so the first issue of not having anything on the menu has been around for awhile now. Some places (Harvey's, Burger King, and SOME Mcdonalds) offer a veggie burger, but with the exception of Harveys, they are usually microwaved. EWW.


There was a time that I ate a lot of junk (soda, pizza, etc)- and I paid the price. Trouble breathing, was heavy, etc- started eating better and lost 80 lbs. That is part of the issue too. I know a lot of people who are heavy- complain about the fact that they are heavy- and yet I still catch them with Mcdonalds, Wendy's, etc. It's like "dude, make the connection"...


Have read parts of Fast Food Nation- think a lot of its results are so self evident by looking at populations that ingest a lot of fast food. Obesity, health problems- and the unwillingness for people to take responsibility for their own eating habits. man.....and then passing it on to their kids. My boyfriend worked in a kid's hospital- and my friend currently works in a walk-in clinic. They both had cases of severely obese children, who had developped respiratory problems, diabetes, and really can't get out there and do the types of things other kids do. And in many of the cases the parents DONT THINK ITS A PROBLEM that their kids injest a litre of pop a day, or go to McDick's once every two days. Poor kids- they end up paying for their parents mistakes.


About how fast food is made.....EWWWWWWW. LOL- I don't think any other comment is needed.


*amber*

[shiva]

California Girl,


Yes, I read it and have not eaten red meat since. To say that it is just a fast food issue is completely insane. It's the meat industry all together. I am actually in a constant argument with certain family members because I asked them to stop feeding my daughter ground beef.. period. What a freaking eye opener that book was. It has been almost 2 years since I read it and not once have I had red meat. I even stopped all meat up untill about 5 months ago when my doctor put me on a high protein diet. Now I eat organic chicken and eggs. I have purchased organic beef for my family and I have prepared it for them. I also talked to a farm about buying meat directly from them. (just because my fiance and daughter miss it a lot.. )


Funny you should mention that, though. I have been thinking lots about that book lately. I think the sickest thing in the book was how the lowest quality of ground beef is sold to elementary schools. WTF????? Anyway... Glad you brought it up. Even though it's a s***ty topic. (no pun intended I love to discuss these issues! Edited by: shiva

[dord]

I haven't read the book but I've seen the movie Super-Size Me. It does have a graphic V scene in it but you definitely know whats going to happen and could buzz right thru it if it bothers you. I am lucky that seeing itin the movies reallydoesn't bother me.Anyway it's horrifyingwhat health ramifications come from eating nothing but McDonalds for an entire month.If I never ate fast food again it would't bother me one bit but again it seems like we are constantly going soemwhere that's a three or better hour driveandfast food isusually the choice of husband and son - what's an emet gal to do?

[luna33]

Sure did. Gross, isn't it? In 1987, I became a vegetarian after reading The Jungle . . . stopped eating fast food several years later owing to environmental reasons . . . and Fast Food Nation and Supersize Me just cemented my resolve . I won't set foot in a fast food place, even to grab a soda. Of course, being an emet helps me stay away . My 4-year-old daughter has never seen the inside of a fast food place or eaten meat of any kind. No McD's parties for us!

[californiagirl]

Hey California Girl! Good to hear from you. Are you the same one that was here a zillion years ago, and contributed to that book about phobias?

NO, that must have been a different CaliforniaGirl. Hey, I wanted to be the only one [img]smileys/smilies_07.gif[/img]-- just kidding!!

[mjewell]

So what you guys are saying is that if I love my burgers and fries I should stay away from those places? LOL


Actually, I have been a little turned off lately about what I have read about the farms that raise animals for food - some of the huge farms raise the animals in cruel and disgusting conditions. That alone is enough to make me stop. I have been trying to cut back on meat consumption and only buy organic when I do...I hope the word gets out about that - I am a huge animal advocate and their practices make me sick.

[californiagirl]

WOW---


The books, Fast Food Nation and the Jungle are real eye-openers, huh? I swear, the only thing that's safe to eat these days is food grown in your own garden!! Even other veggies and fruit are questionable because of the pesticides and e-coli from dirty grounds and poor handling. SCARY!!!!!

[liriodendron]

Fast food is like cocaine. Very addictive. Best to quit eating it
and never get your kids started on it. It's so much grease, salt and
sugar.
Edited by: liriodendron

[silver]

I found out that the only fast-food place that actually grills their hamburgers is sonic and wendy's. The rest put the frozen patties into a machine...How weird is that to eat?? Fast food is sooooo unhealthly, it doesn't matter if you are afraid of food poisoning, it should be avoided. The movie Supersize me is really good, but not for those who are afraid of seeing v*. (like it was mentioned, there is one scene.)

[harmonygirl72]

Sage,


You and I might be some of the only few that remember as far back as the first California Girl! I wonder how she is! I still talk to Bunk (remember him?) and he apparently went out there to meet her a few years back.


Mary

[shiva]

The thing is, it's not just fast food. It's a lot of the food that we buy in the grocery store and cook ourselves and serve to our families. I cannot believe tha fda doesn't do something about the conditions that our food is being raised in. Sick. Whatever is cheap... Good old f***ing USA.

[mitch04133]

I didn't read any books about meat or not eating it, but I did become a vegetarian, and I lost weight, I wasn't getting enough iron and became so anorexic...I am not meaning to start a debate, but once I started eating meat again I became healthier than ever. I know you can get protein and iron and vitamins in other forms, but I wasn't getting enough, I started losing color in my face and was getting quite ill. Now I am more active, and get the protein my body needs. Giving up meat is probably the worst thing an anoxeric can do, and I will never do it again. But that is just my opinion...

[californiagirl]

I didn't read any books about meat or not eating it, but I did become a vegetarian, and I lost weight, I wasn't getting enough iron and became so anorexic...I am not meaning to start a debate, but once I started eating meat again I became healthier than ever. I know you can get protein and iron and vitamins in other forms, but I wasn't getting enough, I started losing color in my face and was getting quite ill. Now I am more active, and get the protein my body needs. Giving up meat is probably the worst thing an anoxeric can do, and I will never do it again. But that is just my opinion...

I agree with you Michele, we need protein. The only consolation is that when you thoroughly cook it, the harmful germs die. I am just really picky now---ground beefhas to be very lean,if I can see any white fatty things I totally gross out andcan't eat it. With chicken, I can only eat the white meat, because it's dry and free of those fatty rubbery cartilage things[img]smileys/smilies_11.gif[/img]I believe that we need our share of protein, veggies, and fruit. I hate fruit, so I drink fruit juice. You can't ever be perfect on this subject, I guess we have to do what is right for us individually. We do need to be careful though[img]smileys/smilies_02.gif[/img], and make sure we don't deprive our bodies of what they need.

[crimgoddess]

I didn't read any books about meat or not eating it, but I did become a vegetarian, and I lost weight, I wasn't getting enough iron and became so anorexic...I am not meaning to start a debate, but once I started eating meat again I became healthier than ever. I know you can get protein and iron and vitamins in other forms, but I wasn't getting enough, I started losing color in my face and was getting quite ill. Now I am more active, and get the protein my body needs. Giving up meat is probably the worst thing an anoxeric can do, and I will never do it again. But that is just my opinion...

Here is my question- were you an anorexic before giving up meat, or did your anorexia occur in tandem with you not eating meat? Because if this was a pre-existing condition, or related to body image, then vegetarianism wasn't the issue. If you were anorexic- it probably means that you werent eating enough to get the nutrients your body needed.....Or are you meaning anemic by any chance?


A common mistake that most people who decide to become vegetarians make is that they don't properly research how to get all the proper nutrients, or they stop eating meat all at once. BAD idea.....


I stopped eating red meat when I was about 11, and gave up the rest around 12 or 13. Up until I was about 21 I was what you would consider an unhealthy vegetarian- ate tons of carbs, didn't make an effort to supplement iron and protein, and ate a lot of sugar. And I paid the price- was overweight, had high bloodsugar, and was overall unhealthy. Becoming a 'good' vegetarian was actually the best thing that happened to me health-wise- a lot of soy, organic fruit and green vegetables, nuts and egg whites. Have never been healthier (and went from a size 16 to a 6-8).


I think theoretically vegetarianism can really work for everyone- but they have to be dedicated, and make the effort to givetheir body everything it needs (sometimes this requires supplements). That being said- some people are unwilling/too attached to meat for this to be an option- which is fine, we all have the choice to eat what we desire (unless it's human flesh, I'm pretty sure that's illegal).


I'm at the point now where I'm pretty sure my body has lost the enzyme needed to effectively break down meat. I inadvertently ate something with meat in it a few years ago, and was hideously ill for a day. If I *really* wanted to eat meat again (which is unlikely), I would have to start gradually, and build up a tolerance. Meh........never.


*amber*

[shiva]

In my oppinion, I think it's all kindagross when you think about it, but ground beef is the devil. There is actually cow s*** in the ground meat. People say to me, "Well, it's cooked, so the bacteria is dead". I don't care. It's still s***. YUK. There was also a story in Fast Food Nation about a kid who died because of contaminated meat. He ate a hamburger and died. Does anyone remember out in Cali a few years back, all the kids getting deathly sick because of the Jack in the Box burgers? Some of those kids were veggie kids, who still got sick from other kids in day care who had the burgers and passed on the bacteria.


Europe will not even touch the United States meat because we are still feeding cattle remnants of cattle. This = Mad f***ing cow disease.


Amber,


I know what you mean. A lot of vegetarian friends that I have had in the past end up living on crap food. There are soooo many nutritious fruits and veggies out there. Not to mention tofu or other soy items are a great source of protein. Now, I have started eating chicken again because I am currently supposed to consume 90 grams of protein a day and I was just really getting bored with that amount from a vegetarian diet.


Finally, eating is another one of those personal decisions. There are benefits to veggie diets when done right, but so few people do it right. And where meat is concerned. EAT ORGANIC. And you don't have to worry about there being s*** in the food

[beadgirl]

First, I think america is fat because, yes, we eat way too much fast food. But some people don't have a lot of money so they end up having to but cheaper food i.e fast food, bad stuff at the supermarket etc. IMO, If stores would sell the good stuff for a less expensive price, then maybe eating healthy could be more affordable for less-fortunate people. As for the whole vegetarian thing... good for you guys, you made a choice not to eat meat and that's great! Crimgoddess is right to say that a lot of veggies don't know how to be a vegetarian properly. And yes, in theory vegetarianism could work for everyone but as humans, we were built as omnivores...liriodendron should like this since he's a caveman (haha) Cavemen/women Ate meats and veggies they wore the carcasses of the animal to keep warm... I think I would be really shocked if there was a vegetarian caveman... Please don't think I am saying it's wrong to be vegetarian because I don't feel that way... In fact you guys have more self control than I do.


And just because you see a fat person eating at mcdonalds doesn't mean they eat there all the time. Dude, even fat people need to eat,even if it is something bad once in a while. My dad is a big guy and he's on a very strict diet for diabetes but evey once in a great while when he's out running errands, he might stop for a quick chicken sanwich at a FF place.I hate when people say stuff like that.


Eeks...sorry so long.

[crimgoddess]

&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;And just because you see a fat person eating at mcdonalds doesn't mean they eat there all the time. Dude, even fat people need to eat,even if it is something bad once in a while. My dad is a big guy and he's on a very strict diet for diabetes but evey once in a great while when he's out running errands, he might stop for a quick chicken sanwich at a FF place.I hate when people say stuff like that. &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;


The thing is I DO know people who are overweight, who complain often about their weight- but eat crap food regularly. As in Mcdonalds and pizza at least once a week (and not just a slice of pizza- they ordera large one, get it delivered, and eat it in two days). Real soda all the time because 'diet soda tastes funny'. It's like the people who smoke out of the hole in their necks.....what the hell!


I have no problem with people who are overweight- if someone wants to leave themself open to potential health problems that is their own business. I was really heavy for awhile, and know how people who are overweight get treated by society- and it ain't pretty. But please- if you are going to bitch and moan to me everytime we go out- for the love of god don't let me catch you with crappy food all the time. And make excuses for eating badly, or thatthey would lose weight but it's 'too hard'. GRR!


*amber*


PS- as for the costs of vegetarianism and eating healthier- I'm a student, and make pretty much no money (everything goes towards rent, books, and utilities). My ass be POOR- but I can still afford it. Tofu/soy products can be expensive- but it is still cheaper than meat. Nuts are on the expensive side....but thats about it.Edited by: crimgoddess

[harmonygirl72]

It IS hard!!! It can be very hard to lose weight! I know hardly anyone will understand that here, because most of you have the opposite problem, but I find it VERY hard to lose weight! I have gotten to like the taste of Diet Coke and I try to be "good"....just have a little sympathy, because as hard as it is for some of you to gain weight, that's how it is for me to lose it!


Mary

[crimgoddess]

harmony- I know it is hard- I lost 80 lbs by myself- no pills, outside help, etc. Just eating healthier and forcing myself to be more active. I do have sympathy to an extent- but as much as I know it's hard, I know it's not impossible.


So, when I see people who complain complain complain, yet don't put any effort into it, my sympathy seems to evaporate.


Good luck It's hard but if you stick with it you'll see the results


*amber*

[beadgirl]

Amber--- I know what you mean about people complaining about being fat and then stuffing their faces with sh!t. That's just wrong. It's like people who ask everyone for advice and then they never take it!

[liriodendron]

Did I miss something? This thread went from talking about a book to a "tainted" food supply to weight loss awfully fast.



Shiva, would you care to elaborate on why you said the meat &amp;
produce from the grocery store aren't any better than fast food joints?
And what should the government be doing about it?



I never officially turned vegetarian, however at the height of my
phobia, I had suddenly switched from hamburgers all the time to no meat
and very little chicken. I was a college student living in a dorm room
so my cooking options were limited to pasta, pizza and tuna fish.



I began to notice a swelling bump about 1"x1" in size below my abdomen
and off to the right (no it wasn't an STD!) Went to various
doctors and showed it to a bunch of people and no one knew what caused
it to swell.

Later, I started eating at restaurants again and so got my fill of
beef. And sure enough, the bump went away. Some years later, I
found myself living in a small city without many restaurants nearby and
I didn't like cooking, so I didn't get my red meat. And the bump came
back. Replaced the meat and it went away again.



I think Mitch was onto something with that iron deficiency thing.
Especially if it's a sudden change. Now that I have a George Foreman
grill, I find it easy enough to make my own meat and burgers. And this
is coming from someone who hates cooking and lived on frozen food for
years. For about the same price of a fast food meal, I can make four
1/3 pound burgers. And in less time than it would take to go to the
nearest fast food joint. They taste great and are healthier due to the
design of the grill. I have the model where you can put the
grilling plates in the dishwasher so cleanup is a snap. I suggest you
all try it.




Edited by: liriodendron

[hippychick]

You don't need meat, I have been a vegetarian for years and I get a balancd diet with no real extra effort than when I was a meat eater to be honest. I love fruit but I love chocolate too so I guess thats balance hehe I've not had any health issues since giving up meat and cant imagine eating it again. It's personal choice though, I don't preach to those who do eat meat but I just found I was worrying too much about it and what was in it and it was making me feel so gross. I don't know how it is in the US but here our regulations say that sausges only have to have a low % of good quality meat in and most places use all kinds of nasty pig parts lol


Mostly i eat fruit, veg and pasta. I adore the food I eat, find it easy to maintain my weight and don't miss meat at all.

[liriodendron]

For what it's worth, if I was in the UK, I wouldn't eat beef either.

[img]smileys/smilies_01.gif[/img]

[californiagirl]

Can someone guide me on the correct way to basically be a vegetarian? I LOVE veggies, but the only fruit I like are pears and oranges. I like chicken and fish. Don't really care too much for red meat, maybe once in a great while! I need to lose some weight and would like to do it without any type of diet pills or gimmicks. I really would appreciate any advice you guys can give me---THANKS!!

[aguerra29]

I could never be a vegetarian. Not that I don't respect people who are, I could never give up meat. It's not like I eat meat at every meal, every day, but i do enjoy a nice mediun rare steak, veal parmigian(I know it's cruel, but it tastes so good), pork ribs, bacon, and good ole tex-mex beef fajitas. I am making myself hungry. I have read the jungle and worked in the restaurant industry for many years. It hasn't stopped me from eating meat. I do try to avoid fast-food though. I am a very picky eater - when it comes to vegetables and such - so I think I would starve to death if you told me I couldn't eat meat. I only like ice-berg lettuce, I WILL NOT eat anything from the bean family -except maybe green beans- but I'm pretty particular about that too. I think everyone is entitled to eat how they want. I have never let knowing what is "in" something stop me from eating it. I still eat hotdogs and bologna. My theory is "If is tastes good to me and doesn't make me sick, then let's eat!"

California Girl, as far as losing weight, my mantra is "Eat Less, Exercise More". THat is easy to do. For me,trying to change my diet was not an option. I have no self discipline.

[crimgoddess]

About losing weight-


Be careful not to drink your calories. Although fruit juice does have some nutritional value- it also has a lot of sugar, and doesn't really fill you up. Instead of drinking juices, eat the fruit themselves (even if it is only pears of oranges). Did you know that one glass of orange juice is the caloric equivalent to about 3 or 4 oranges? Now, which one would fill you up more?


Instead of juices, try to drink as much water as possible. I personally hate the taste (or non-taste) of water, so I drink the bottles that have a small bit of flavour added (or add some lemon juice to my water).


For food- a lot of veggies (do you know that you actually BURN calories by eating celery because of how many calories your body uses to break it down?), low fat cheese (cottage cheese is awesome), and whole grains. Try to avoid white pasta, white bread, and white rice- the whole wheat equivalent is much better for you. I personally try to avoid pasta and bread in general, because I dont have the best metabolism, and all those carbs arent being used effectively. Also, meat replacements (veggie dogs/burgers/patties) are often lower in both calories and fat than their true meat counterparts. 1 veggie dog is only about 50 calories (and high in protein). Mixed beans (kidney, chick, and lentils) are awesome- and so is tofu when cooked correctly. SPINACH! Very high in iron.


Also- try to eat about 5 small meals a day....not only will you not get super-hungry during the day, but at night you won't be tempted to snack.


Finally- aguerra has the right idea with the exercise more part. Cardio worked best for me- I bike/walk/run everywhere. Weights are also awesome for getting a good body tone- but ONLY do them if you are being trained to use them properly. If you don't know what you're doing you can cause some serious damage.


*amber*

[shiva]

liriodendron,


I didn't necessarily mean that cooking at home isn't better than eating fast food. I think meals at home are much better than fast food. I just think that people get hung up on the title of the book being Fast Food Nation and think it's only about what is wrong with eating fast food. The book goes into detail about how the conventional farms both pump the animals with tons of hormones and antibiotics. They are also force fed sawdust and animal bones. Much of their feed has feces, urine and blood in it. When slaughtered the animals feces actually ends up in the ground beef. I think the book stated that FDAreports from 199? stated that 80% of the beef tested had fecal matter in it. This is not just the beef that we are getting from Mc Donalds and Burger King, it's also the meat we buy from the grocery store and feed to our families at home. There are many issues other than gastro ones that people should worry about when consuming this meat. The hormones pumped into it have an excessive amount of estrogen. Estrogen causes people to be fat and get cancer. The animal can also get a disease that causes humans to get crones disease if the sick animal is consumed. Slaughter houses butcher and sell sick animals all of the time. (To your local grocery store.) The FDA claims to do random testing, however the FDA standards are much less strict than any other country. Like I stated before, the US is a country who, despite the bovine issue and Mad Cow Disease, still feeds animal remnants back to animals.


take a breath...


As far as produce goes... Conventional farms use an enormous amount of harmful pesticides on their crops. The FDA hasn't even gotten around to testing all of the pesticides used. So, there are actually unused pesticides being used on the food that we eat. An apple itself comes into contact with 8 different pesticides. These pesticides mess with the body's endocrine system. Pesticides cause cancer, and again cause estrogen dominance, which leads to obesity and cancer. We used to use a class of pesticides that actually were causing cancer in children, so the United States did ban these pesticides from being used on US soil. HOWEVER, we still make the poison and ship export it. Other countries (perhaps mexico) uses them to grow their crops and THEN we import the crop from Mexico. f***ed up, NO??? Some of the strawberries that we buy at the grocery store may as well have been grown in the soil right by a neuclear power plant they are so contaminated with poison.


That's what I meant, but I didn't really want to get into all of that here. But, since you asked [img]smileys/smilies_08.gif[/img]