OT: Christianity

[samara's on tv]

Okay I was just wondering if any one here is a Christian. I was just watching Trading Spouses on Fox (I never watch that show but tonight they were doing an episode with aVERY VERYChristian woman trading spaces with a New Aged/Wiccan woman and I just HAD to see how that worked out) Anyway the woman is like against EVERYTHING! She thought that aPsychic was doing the devil's work.


I was raised to accept all religions, I was even raised to accept the people that don't believe in God. I'm Wiccan myself. What I don't understand is the close mindedness that some Christians have. I respect everyone's religion...hell if you want to go worship a rock and call it God I'm all for it...what ever makes you happy.


My friend said, "Why do people who believe in a book FULL of miracles fail to believe that anyone today can have powers?" And I TOTALLY agree with that. Is there anyone out there who is a total christian...someone who would want to SAVE me? Because I can tell you that I've already been saved...The Wiccan religion came into my life at just the right time.


I guess what I'm getting into here is there anybody who agrees with me? That they can't STAND close minded people? That just because you're ONE religion it doesn't make someone else's religion WRONG? Sorry I'm just really PISSED OFF at that woman on the show...she makes me want to punch somone!


~MonicaEdited by: samara's on tv

[shiva]

All I can say is that I haven't laughed so hard at the television in a long time until watching that tonite! I actually set my cell phone to remind me to pick up the rest next week.


It really is funny to me when "Christian" people are very closed and judgemental of others. I mean, shouldn't they be accepting of all of God's people? I find that most of the people who identify themselves as being extremely religious are usually not leading very spiritual lives.


I have seen the most spirituality and goodness in people who don't even realize it. I don't care if you worship Buddha, God, The Moon Goddess or the Jolly Green freaking Giant. If you are a good person with a true heart... that's all that matters. I respect all people's spiritual beliefs because it is personal and personal issues are to be respected by others. But, I think when people begin to preach and ignorantly judge others, then they cross the line. Still, they only make themselves look ignorant, so why should it bother me?


The thing about me is that I was raised with no real spiritual background. My dad taught us to respect the land and the universe during his native american rants. I grew up around mainly Catholic friends. My dad dated Wiccan's usually. If I am talking to a Buddhist, I believe in Buddhism because usually they are sooo passionate in their beliefs that I cannot help but believe for that moment because I don't have a sold belief of my own. Same goes for when I converse with Christians or Pagans. As long as it's pure and positive it's all good.


But yeah.. That poor lady has lost it!!!!

[mommyof3]

I didn't see the show, but I saw the previews and it looks like she has mental problems.


I'm a Christian and what I frankly am sick of are those who try to stuff it down everyone's throats and give all Christians a bad name with their judgmental attitudes. I could go on, about hypocrites who value warinstead ofpeace, moneyinstead ofjustice, powerinstead oftaking care of "the least of these", but I won't

[pianolover]

I am a Christian. This is a delicate issue and I know it! But keep in mind that ifone really has faith thatone's religion is the truth, then how canone believe that other religions which conflict might be equally true? I believe there is one God and He came to earth as Jesus Christ, so how can I accept religions that try to tell me to worship multiple gods/goddesses etc.?


Just my perspective!

[HDogg]

Do you want to know why some Christians are so "close-minded" and "judgmental"? It's because the fundamentalists who believe the Bible is 100% true and believe every word it says, follow it letter to letter. Yes, fundamentalists believe that anyone who does not believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and died on the cross to save them from their sins is going to hell when they die. Yes, Christians believe that it is NOT enough to be a "good person." Because even the "best" people in the world have been guilty at one time or another of lying, cheating, stealing, etc. Not a single person on this earth is PERFECT. Even the blessed Pope John Paul II or Mother Theresa has been guilty of doing something God doesn't like at least once.


God loved us so much that he doesn't want us to perish for doing anything against Him. Anyone out there who believes in God must believe He's perfect and flawless, right? Who can even desribe the perfection and holiness of the one who created each of us? And why would any being who is perfect and flawless let something evil into His presence? Why should it be acceptable? This is God we're talking about, not some human being who has committed innumerable sins, whether he believes he is a "good person" or not. If you were completely perfect, without everdoingANYTHING wrong (not even telling a white lie to protect someone) would you reallyfeel so good about telling a lie or doing anything wrong at all? You'd be perfect, right?


So when humans say they are "good people", are they really, in comparison to perfection? Of course not! None of us is perfect!!!!!


That's why those"fundamentalist, intolerant Christians" want to share with you that there is a way to God. Being a"good person" isn't enough. If you were God, would you want to deal with the corruption ofsociety as it is? No way. So they are not as intolerant as you think. They want to help, just as I do. I have been saved from the death grips of alcoholism. Do you have any idea of how many people die from that disease every year? It's sickening. There's help. There's a way out.


I'm sorry if any of you still think Christians are intolerant. Of course, we're not perfect. We aren't supposed to judge, but unfortunately, that's what imperfect humans do. We judge. Welie. We cheat (even if it's only on a math test in the seventh grade.) We steal (even if it's only a pack of gum at Wal-Mart).We commit adultery (even only if it's in our hearts.)


The Christians who think they're better than anyone else are sorely mistaken. We aren't. We're all sinners.We allfall short of perfection. We just have a way of meeting Pefectionand being forgiven of our imperfections when we die. We won't be lost. We're saved and protected for eternity. Do you really think all Christians are intolerant in the face of ETERNITY?




















If this message was offensive to some, I'm sorry. But not really. I care about all of you. I have been saved (not only spiritually, but emotionally and mentally, as well.) Life may really stink. But it only lasts for 65+ years---and then what? I know. Do you?


Please don't ban me. I tried to present this message as lovingly as I could. I still want to be a part of the message board who does love and care about one another. I want help for my suffering. Life can be about suffering, no matter how bad or good we are. Please dont prevent me from getting help or helping others.


Love, Heather


Edited by: HDogg

[hippychick]

My general opinion is this, if believing in God helps you through life and helps you be a better person then it doesn't matter that he may or may not exist, if faith is what gets people through and helps them better themselves then thats just fine by me no issues. I DO take issues with the few who decide to a.) preach it to me, stuff it down my throat b.) Judge me c.) Use their religion as a means to judge other people. Now I know that not everyone is like this, I know people who believe in God and get on with their life. but I have also known people who believe in God and use it as a way of judging everyone around them and preaching their hatred. I don't believe that God, however perfect he may or may notbe, would want people killing and hating in his name.


I do not believe in God, but I do believe in not judging those who do. Heather babe, if faith helped you kick alcohol in the butt then good for you! I just don't feel it is something I personally need in my life and I don't appreciate people telling me it is.


Oh and to whoever said that Christians don't/won't believe there could be anything else because they believe their religion to be the truth. I don't think it's about believing it, if someone said they thought a rock was God I might have a lil trouble accepting it myself, but it's respecting and tolerating it, not saying that you don't, but some don't even respect it. I don't believe in God, but I have no issues with those who do even though it conflicts with what I believe to be true. You don't have to accept what other religions tell you but equally they have as much right to believe in what they want to as you do.


Oh and no one will get banned for their views as long as it's conveyed in a loving way etc etcEdited by: hippychick

[jesskali]

I think that is a very sensitive and controversial topic which could cause some tension among the group.


VERY WELL SAID, HDogg and Pianolover! I couldn't agree more! I am a Christian and proud of it!


Jess

[pianolover]

Thanks for your response, hippychick. I was thinking about my post and decided that I didn't word it the best way I could have! I absolutely believe that everyone has the "right" to believe whatever they want, whether it is true or not. I am not trying to get everyone I meet to become a Christian - only God can change people's hearts, and I don't even pretend that is part of my "job." The Bible tells us that our job as Christians is to make sure that everyone hears about Jesus - and it is clear that some will believe and some will not, and there is nothing we can do about that.


As for what I said about the truth, I just think it's more black and white than most people like to think. It would be nice if there were a gray area where you could be "basically correct," but I don't think this is the case here. If we take an objective fact, like "the sky is blue" (I guess we could even argue that, but let's assume it's true for now!), let's see what happens. If you say, "The sky is blue," and I say "No, the sky is actually yellow," it would be ridiculous for you to say, "Oh, that's ok - the sky is yellow to pianolover. No problem." If you thought it was important for me to know, for whatever reason, that the sky was actually blue, like if knowing that was going to save my life, then you wouldn't sit back and let me go on believing untruth without even trying to explain the truth to me. I thinkTruth in the spiritual sense is much like this.Does that make any sense??


To me it is like that rule of physics (someone correct me here if I'm wrong, because I know nothing about physics!) that says two objects cannot be in the same space at the same time (ie. car crashes). If Jesus is the Truth and the only Way to God, like the Bible says He is, then that is true and there's no way around it, no back roads you can take to avoid that fact.


I would love responses, because I'm not a theologian! I would love to know if that makes sense and to find the flaws in my "argument" Thanks for reading.Edited by: pianolover

[SimplyMe]

I wasn't going to respond to this post because it is controversial but I just had to lol. I think there's a middle ground, everyone here is right. I am a Christian. Unfortunately there are some who use religion (any religion not just Christianity) as a weapon to persecute others of a different faith. I saw that episode last night and thought the same thing as samara. There is nothing wrong w/ having faith or in believing your own religion to be the only "true" religion. The irritating thing for me is instead of accepting that others feel just as strongly about their beliefs as this woman apparently feels about her own she judged and belittled and I'm sorry but I was brought up that that is NOT Christian like behavior. I can understand if she disagrees but there is something to be said for tolerance. She didn't need to go off as she did. Of course we all have our judgements and none of us are perfect, we make mistakes and judgements on others but is that really an excuse? I believe that God wants us to care for each other no matter what we believe in. Jesus (if you believe) accepted EVERYONE, even those who crusified him he asked God to forgive them. I just feel a bit of tolerence for each other and forgiveness is the least we can do in return.


I also find it sad that on the show and in life people miss out on each other. I mean she didnt get a chance to really know the people she was staying w/ because she was too busy finding "the devil" in everything. What if it turns out they are wonderful people w/ different beliefs? If we all did that than there'd only be groups of about 3 or 4 of us that actually talk to each other on this site but instead we are able to accept each other, and I feel we are the lucky ones for it.Edited by: SimplyMe

[kate1966]

Wonderfully said SimplyMe.....i could not have said it better myself...I agree with you 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shiva]

SimplyMe. You REALLY did a great job summing that up! And I also agree totally with everything you said.

[*mandi*]

Wow that Lady scared me. I cant beleive how wacko she is going to get on the next episode. some people just take it too far.

[meercat]

WOW, i had a feeling when i read the subject to this post, that this could end up being a huge controversial and touchy subject. Thank GOD <~~(dead give away as to my faith hehe), that it didn't turn out that way! WHEW!!

I really don't need to add anything, as Pianolover, Simplyme, among others, summed it up very well :-)

As i said on other posts of mine...I pray to my Lord and Saviour for EACH and every one of us on here...as Emets. Whether anyone likes it or not...sorry, but not really, i'll do it anyway...WHY? Cuz i care about each and every person on here no matter WHAT belief or religion you are and i want us ALL to one day be EMET free and live happy normal lives! :-)

Paula :-)

[harmonygirl72]

Haha, well, I told Simplyme, I'd post, so here I am! She called me today to read it to me, because she knows I love a good controversy! But, actually, I feel that everyone here has said everything very well already. The only thing I can think of to add is...THIS is why I dislike reality television. I personally don't even think it is "REAL". I think they find crazy people like that lady to get ratings and to get people like us all up in arms about it! So, we won't let some crazy reality show divide us! Emets united...Christian, Buddhist, Wiccan, or Rock Worshipper! I love you all!


Mary

[shiva]

As entertained as I was by the show last night, I just have to say.......


RIGHT ON, MARY!!!!!


XOXOXO ToALL fellow emets!!!

[pianolover]

Amen to that

[HDogg]

Wow! I thought I was going to get chewed out! Whew! [img]smileys/smilies_02.gif[/img] I think this is great you guys. Thanks!

[SimplyMe]

Mary you are so right about reality tv. Don't get me wrong I watch that show whenever possible lol (guilty pleasure) but they ALWAYS have complete opposite, diverse, extremes of people on that show (and many others) I guess a good conflict is good for ratings lol. I too am really glad that this post didn't go where it could have. I think it shows the maturity and tolerence of everyone here, we should all give ourselves a pat on the back because if you look at shows like that or even the news we are doing what many cannot.

[Galadriel]

First off, well said Heather! This is a tough topic and I almost decided not to respond, but maybe it can help some?


The reason I as a Christian don't believe other religions are the correct path is well, because Christianity teaches that the only way to heaven is thro Jesus. I don't know any other way to put it. If I didn't believe that then I would clearly not be a Christian. There isn't any way to convince anyone that Christianity is the right way unless you come to realize it is the truth. Just like for instance you couldn't convice me to be Wiccan unless I came to realize it as truth.


I don't think it is okay to disrespect other religions, butdon'texpect me to believe in Buddism or Islam or Wiccan when I believe Christianity is the truth.


I think the thing is too is that we as Christians are attempting to live our lives as Christ would wantus to liveit, meaning we follow what the Bible teaches and so all this "closemindedness" is what the Bible teaches. It is impossible tho to really explain this, because coming from 2 different beliefs, from 2 opposite ends its hard to explain it in understandable terms to you.


All I can say is that yes Christians are close minded in those terms, it is part of being Christian that you don't follow or believe that all these other religions are okay.


Lastly, the only reason I would want to try to "save" you, (I can't save you, only God can do that) is because I would want you to not perish in hell but go to heaven. Its not for bad reasons at all, I would and do only want good for you. I know tho you don't see it this way, and thats your decision.


I do deeply care about you and everyone on here who has to suffer with this emet. We at least can definately be united against that.


I hope this has helped some, talking about religions like this is difficult because those of us who believe in this or that tend to believe it firmly and its easy to get upset over it. I hope you were able to get some understanding from this.

Okay I was just wondering if any one here is a Christian. I was just watching Trading Spouses on Fox (I never watch that show but tonight they were doing an episode with aVERY VERYChristian woman trading spaces with a New Aged/Wiccan woman and I just HAD to see how that worked out) Anyway the woman is like against EVERYTHING! She thought that aPsychic was doing the devil's work.


I was raised to accept all religions, I was even raised to accept the people that don't believe in God. I'm Wiccan myself. What I don't understand is the close mindedness that some Christians have. I respect everyone's religion...hell if you want to go worship a rock and call it God I'm all for it...what ever makes you happy.


My friend said, "Why do people who believe in a book FULL of miracles fail to believe that anyone today can have powers?" And I TOTALLY agree with that. Is there anyone out there who is a total christian...someone who would want to SAVE me? Because I can tell you that I've already been saved...The Wiccan religion came into my life at just the right time.


I guess what I'm getting into here is there anybody who agrees with me? That they can't STAND close minded people? That just because you're ONE religion it doesn't make someone else's religion WRONG? Sorry I'm just really PISSED OFF at that woman on the show...she makes me want to punch somone!


~Monica

Edited by: Galadriel

[tayda]

I'm with you. I'm Catholic, and I've noticed that some of the most "devoted" people to GOD are the most reluctant to acknowledge diversity amongst others. I don't know, but the God that I grew up believing in wanted us to accept everybody as they were.


QUESTION: I went to Salem, and they; are surprisingly religious.. (or not so surprisingly) and they had christian performer and bands playing in downtown Salem.. and like 4 people handing me these christian pamplets basically saying that everyone is going to hell except for them. I mean, I feel bad if I don't take one from them, but I can't bring myself to throw it out b/c I'd feel like I'd be a bad Catholic... so I still have it in a pocket somewhere.


I dunno.. Im just wierd I guess

[jesskali]

Good post, Galadriel!

[2jo2]

I saw that episode of Trading Spouses and could not believe that woman! I think SimplyMe said it perfectly: that woman was so busy trying to find the devil in everything (the star on the side of the barn - it was a regular star, the kind you put on top of a Christmas tree, the kind your 1st grade teacher puts on your spelling test, nothing more), she couldn't see past that. I've seen other episodes with these polar opposite types: alligator farmer trades with a vegan woman. Of course they do this for ratings. I watch these things and try to understand each side, but it always seems as if one is very open minded and one is absolutely resistant to anything different than themselves.


That said, I am a Christian. I was raised Lutheran and was taught that God loves me and wants me to love my enemies, because then I will be blessed. I try hard to do this, but I'm human and I am flawed. I try very hard to see the humanity in everyone I meet. We all really just want to be accepted and have a good life. Everyone has a story.


People like the woman on the show sadden me. I was disgusted by the way her friends treated the other woman. That to me is not Christian behavior. Neither is saying the f-bomb and "in Jesus' name I pray" in the same sentence, as she is shown to do in the preview for next week. I could go on.....


Believe me, not all Christians are beligerent and unaccepting. Evangelism is not a part of my religion. I enjoy being in the company of people who share the same beliefs as I do, and I get that in my bible study group, I get that when I spend time with my family. But I have friends who are not spiritual people. I pray for them, I don't preach to them. I just feel it's not my place to do so.


It's awesome we can have a nice discussion here about each of our beliefs: Christian and non Christian.

[HDogg]

Good points everyone! I've never watched the show, and from y'all are describing, it sounds like this woman is more of a legalist Christian than anything. I have a feeling that legalism is what turns a lot of people off about Christianity. People preach, preach, preach about God and how everything's a sin and everyone's gonna burn in hell if they do____. But there's no grace involved. Someone who is a "true" Christian doesn't try to "follow the rules", or worse yet--invent their own rules about what it means to be a so-called follower of Christ-- because they fail everytime. After all, we're only human. That's why Christians BELIEVE we need a savior.


The ones who turn off the non-Christian population are the ones who claim to practice one thing, yet preach another. (Like the woman Jo spoke about who dropped the f-bomb and prayed the name of Jesus in the same sentence.) But these people never speak about grace and mercy--they only judge. That's why non-Christians judge the rest of us in one lump sum, based on these poor witnesses. I'm truly sorry for that. Not all Christians are like this woman on tv.


I think Laura was right on when she said that nobody could convince her to be a Wiccan, Muslim, atheist, whatever, because she doesn't believe it is the truth, and same goes for other religions versus Christians. We do have our own beliefs about what is true or not. It is so hard to convince the rest of the world that not ALL Christians are like that woman on tv, or not ALL Muslims are terrorists. Stereotyping stinks, doesn't it? [img]smileys/smilies_06.gif[/img]

[Galadriel]

I agree Heather,


Sometimes I think it gets a bad rap because people do see Christians who are preaching one thing, yet turning around and doing the opposite in their own lives. Christians are not perfect tho, and we strive to live how Jesus would have us live. I think thats a big reason why we should be very careful how we live.

[donna1216]

All I am going to say is that I, too, am a Christian, and I too believe that the only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ, and I do believe in being a witness for others and trying to get them to come to Christ (as I have been trying with my husband for 6 years!!!), but I do NOT believe in judging others, I do not look down upon or condemn others for their beliefs (or lack thereof) and I do notbelieve in offending others or shoving mybeliefs down anyone's throat. THat is not what God wants, He is the judge!! None of us here on Earth knows what God will ultimately decide regarding individuals upon their deaths.


I live in Kansas City and we have a semi-local (Topeka) "preacher" Fred Phelps who is doing his best to ruin Christianity all on his own--some of you have heard of him, I am sure--yes, he runs the horribly offensive and evil website "godhatesfags.com"--unbelievable.

[2jo2]

Donna, that man (Phelps) came to our community to protest at a funeral of a soldier killed in Iraq, and I looked him up, and was horrified by what I read. It sends chills down my spine.

[SimplyMe]

Weel said guys.


I've never heard of that Phelps guy before. He sounds awful and I'm afraid to look him up. How do you protest a soldier's burial? How do you protest anyone's burial really? Sick.

[Galadriel]

Geez that Phelps guy, its people like that that turn others off to Christianity.

[2jo2]

I don't even want to type what he believes! I shouldn't say he protested the funeral, he actually picketed the funeral. Ugh.... it's awful, like I said, I don't even want to advertise his hatred. He says that the deaths of our soldiers in Iraq are the result and punishment for the acceptance of gays in society. He says just absolutely hateful things, believes himself to be almost like Jesus. It's sick, really. His message is so far from what Christianity preaches.

[hippychick]

He made our news recently for saying that millions should have died in the UK London bombings this year beacuse we are a "fag country" and that if he came over here he would be arrested for preaching his BS and you're damn straight he would be. People like him really give off a s***ty vibe to religion and thats very unfair on those who are not like that (the vast majority) The scariest thing was hearing the kids talking and saying they don't mind dying as the US is full of fags etc etc. Vile.